Neuropsychology Central

Degirl · Joined: 12 Oct 2003 Posts: 2 Location: DE

Hello! I am currently a research assistant in a neuropsychology lab and love my job, but I want to go back to school, and not do research. So, I am applying to PsyD programs only. Has anyone heard of PsyD's having a tougher time getting neuropsych post docs thank PhD's?

Also, any word on the programs at Loyola in Maryland or George Washington U in DC

Take care.

phil480 · Joined: 07 Dec 2004 Posts: 10

You should definitely check out either Argosy University Tampa or Argosy Atlanta. Both offer Psy D. programs with a neuropsychology track. You can get more information at www.argosyu.edu.
Phil

danyounghan · Joined: 08 Dec 2004 Posts: 10 Location: Chicago, IL

firstly, good luck with your academic pursuits. As for the PsyD issue, more and more competent psyd's are contributing to the field. I myself am at the Adler School of Prof Psychology in Chicago. It is the only one of three predoctoral neuropsychology training schools in the Chicago land area. I chose the program because of its practice orientation and it's working out great.

As for the competition, PhD or PsyD regardless, neuropsychology is going to be extremely competitive. To avoid the PsyD stigma, just make sure you have good research (quality no quantity) done while you are in a program. Meaning, there is virtually no way to avoid research if you want to be competitive in neuropsychology internships and postdoc fellowships.

Hope this helped. Good luck!
_________________
"Brains 'R Us!"

phil480 · Joined: 07 Dec 2004 Posts: 10

I just wanted to add to what Dany has already said in regards to research. In order to even be considered for most neruopsych interships you must conduct a considerable amount of research and it always helps to have a few publications along the way. Other PsyD. concentrations do not require an original emperically based dissertation. However, in order to meet the APA's core 40 requirements to become a board certified neruopsychologist, you must conduct original research for your dissertation. If you do end up pursuing your neruopsych degree, my advice would be to jump on some faculty research wherever it is you attend college. You will still have to do some research, but sharing the workload with faculity and classmates definitely reduces the amount of work you do yourself. In most cases you can contribute as little as one hour per week to up to ten working on research. Just depends on what you're willing to do. It also helps you to get a head start on you dissertation. Good luck with everything.

Phil

bmoore

degirl,
Your question/comment brings up very important issues. As a graduate from a Psy.D. program, I find it discouraging when prospective students seek out Psy.D. programs because they lack interest in research and only want to engage in clinical work. I think to be a competent psychologist (clinical or neuropsychologist) at a minimum, one must be a good consumer of research. I believe that to be a good consumer of research, one must have been involved in the production of research (it does sound like you have had some experience with this).

As stated by the Adler student, much of the empirical research today, as well as many of the texts in NP are delivered by graduates from Psy.D. programs. There is certainly a stigma about Psy.D. programs. However, much of this is based on inaccurate facts and assumptions. Lee (who has done some good research on the Test of Memory Malingering) mentioned in a previous post that Psy.D. programs tend to focus more on counseling and therapy. Actually, the opposite is true. Where Ph.D. programs traditionally focus more on research, Psy.D. programs focus more on clinical/psychological assessment. For example, many of the students accepted to clinical psychology residencies with the Army are from Psy.D. programs. One variable that accounts for this is programs selecting students with more experience in assessment.

With regard to your competitiveness for NP slots, it will certainly be more difficult for you if you don't have research experience. But, if you combined your assessment experience with some research experience you will be highly competitive for these slots (based on my discussions with postdoc training directors).

Anyway, sorry for the ramblings. I wish you success in your future endeavors.

Bret
_________________
CPT Bret A. Moore, Psy.D.
Combat Stress Psychologist
85th Medical Team
Ft. Hood, TX

lash · Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 10:57 am Post subject:

Hi again,

Bret made a good point, and caught an error on my part, I was thinking from a therapy vs. research standpoint and completely forgot about assessment in the PhD/PsyD discussion. Everything I know about the PsyD was taught to me by PhD's, which seems a little like learning Spanish from a French professor. My apologies for any confusion.

Lee
_________________
Lee Ashendorf, Ph.D.
Edith Nourse Rogers Memorial VA
Co-Webmaster, Neuropsychology Central

dmlevy · Joined: 08 Jan 2005 Posts: 7

I just happened upon this website while I was looking up Psy.D programs in clinical neuropsychology. and I just wanted to say that I'm so glad that I found a place where I can discuss this stuff with other people! Like DE girl, I too have been doing research for almost 3 years now (1 year at the U of Michigan, 2 years at the U of Wisconsin), and would now like to focus on clinical neuropsych. in graduate school too. That is why I am primarily applying to Psy.D programs. While I understand it is important to have experience in both clinical work and research, I feel that I already have extensive research experience, and would now like to focus on the other side of things. However, I am having trouble finding a program that meets these criteria: A) an APA accredited Psy.D program, B) a specialization in clinical neuropsychology.

Like some of you have said, the specialization is sometimes post-doctoral ... but any suggestions for schools would be very helpful. I thought the suggestion for Argosy- Tampa and Atlanta was very helpful. Does anyone else know of any other such programs? I'm curious as to what the other two schools in Chicago are (other than Adler). Also, I wasn't quite sure if Adler is still APA accredited, any word on that? As for GW, I know they have neuropsychology electives, but not necessarily a neuropsych. track. If anyone could suggest some graduate schools for clinical neuropsych, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

danyounghan · Joined: 08 Dec 2004 Posts: 10 Location: Chicago, IL

The other two in Chicagoland area are Northwestern and Finch Chicago Med school, but they are both PhD programs. Adler is, yes, still APA accredited and hope there isn't a rumor that it is not (don't know why there would be Shocked

). My recommendation is to look for a program with faculty you would want to work with, regardless of the PsyD/PhD issue. Initially, I just chose the PsyD as opposed to PhD due to the school's theoretical orientation (Adlerian). Northwestern and Finch's theoretical orientations are Analytical and CBT respectively (I think... could be wrong about Finch). However, for neuropsych, in a strict sense, it turns out it rarely matters anyway. A dementia battery is rather atheoretical from psychology's point of view.

At the end of the day, hard work AND networking are the two main ingredients in this neuropsych soup.

Good luck!
_________________
"Brains 'R Us!"

Matt · Joined: 12 Jan 2005 Posts: 1

Does anyone know if a BTEC Health Studies National Diploma will get me in to uni to do a course in psychology???

phil480 · Joined: 07 Dec 2004 Posts: 10

Hey David, (if you haven't already) you should check out [/u]Graduate Study in Psychology. It as an annual publication that lists virtually every Graduate level psych program in the U.S. and some in Canada. It provides specifics regarding APA accreditation, GRE/GPA requirements, number of current students, projected number of studends that will be accepted the next year as well as contact information. Hope that helps.
Phil

Paendrag · Joined: 18 Jan 2005 Posts: 32

Why would you go to a Psy.D program if you have interest in research? They tend to underfund students, tuition is higher, and the focus is not on research. A Psy.D. is a fine degree, but it is not a research degree. Also, it is not necessary to go to a program that has a neuropsychology track. In fact, that isn't even the traditional training model for neuropsychology. Go to a program that has a strong neuroscience program, the option for a research supervisor who is a neuropsychologist, and the ability to do neuropsychology practica, and you will be ahead of the game.

danyounghan · Joined: 08 Dec 2004 Posts: 10 Location: Chicago, IL

David,

Although I agree with Paendrag about PsyD underfunding students and having higher tuition, having a neuropsych track on your transcripts can't hurt. The guidelines from the Houston conference does indicate emphasis on predoctoral training, and a specialty track can't hurt. As for the quality of PsyD programs in considering research, it really depends on the program regardless of the PsyD myths. It is however, unfortunate that most PsyD programs don't strongly endorse publishing research at the predoctoral level. However, it does not mean that some of these programs are not good consumers of research for their applied focus. In your case, although you may feel like you have extensive and enough research experience, there's no such thing (don't take this the wrong way Wink

); no one could have "enough" research.

Neuropsych tends to be a different game all together from clinical psychology; almost a different field. I would have to agree that picking a strong neuroscience program, supervision by ABPP/CN, and doing neuropsych practica are the ways to go.

It sounds like it may be beneficial if you explore more about what neuropsychologist does daily before jumping into it. It's easy to confuse psychobiology, neuropsychology, rehab psych, etc. before one actually begins training. If working with people through clinical work is what you are now interested in, it will help to look at psychodynamic or CBT oriented programs. If not, just stick with research orientation. Assessment can come along the way just by having practica (that's the point of practica).

G'luck.
_________________
"Brains 'R Us!"

Paendrag · Joined: 18 Jan 2005 Posts: 32

"...having a neuropsych track on your transcripts can't hurt."

Actually, at the expense of clinical psychology, it can. Neuropsychology is a subdiscipline of clinical psychology. There are some Ph.D. neuropsychology programs, but they are relatively new. Many internship programs, even division 40, want some generalized training.

Paendrag · Joined: 18 Jan 2005 Posts: 32

I misread that. A track is likely good, so long as it includes plenty of generalized training. A separate degree in Neuropsychology is risky at this point.